Pentecostal Confidential

Greg Laurie is the Pastor of a mega-church that's not far from 'The Happiest Place On Earth' in Orange County. He trots out all the same tired lines one would expect on homosexuality, but what I didn't know until today, and what Greg won't tell you, is that Greg was brought to the knowledge of salvation from a gay man named Lonnie Frisbee. Greg has called gays "the enemy," but was it an enemy that brought you to Christ Greg? Scratching a little deeper, I find this beast was baptized by Lonnie when he left the gay-affirming Church thinking he was rid of homosexuals like himself. It's like Six Degrees of Lonnie Frisbee.

After I posted this, I received word Laurie edited his church page. This is what he deleted:

"God does not create a person with homosexual desires. The Bible tells us that people become homosexuals because of sin (Romans 1:24-27) and ultimately because of their own choice. A person may be born with a greater susceptibility to homosexuality, just as some people are born with a tendency to violence and other sins. That does not excuse the person’s choosing to sin by giving in to sinful desires. If a person is born with a greater susceptibility to anger/rage, does that make it right for him to give into those desires? Of course not! The same is true with homosexuality."


I never delved into the tale of Frisbee because it's a sad one. His story took place in the time of the flower children of the '60s, how God used him in founding some of the most influential Pentecostal churches (Calvary Chapel, Vineyard) around today, and how he was run out on a rail (sound familiar?), blotted out of church history, and left to die of AIDS outside of the churches that once embraced him.

I could go into Brant Baker who mirrors Lonnie's tale or the oddness of the Paul Cain case, but that is for another time on a cold night with hot cocoa my child.

"I first heard the gospel message from him (Lonnie) and responded when I was 17. As did thousands of others around the world. He helped father three great moves of God. Did you know that when he was last in Africa, ten young men gave their lives to Jesus Christ? And that those ten men each went out from Lonnie's meeting and started ten churches each? And that a "Jesus People type" revival swept across Africa as a result of those churches? How many souls can say that you first brought the gospel message to them?"

- David Sloane.



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When I quoted the above from David when I first wrote this post in 2016, I left out the last part of his quote that said; "... Were you there when he told me that he had been deeply wrong in his prior conduct and "was now paying the price for it?"

Now David was talking about Lonnie's homosexuality. The implication being because Lonnie was gay, AIDS was the price he paid for it, a sentiment apparently shared by Lonnie himself from some alleged audio tapes Lonnie made before he died (even if Lonnie did do this, it doesn't take away from the fact God worked through him while still being a gay man and not after). I tried to make David look good b editing the first quote talking only about Lonnie's missionary work in Africa. I wanted to keep out the disagreement I had with David on the last part of what he said, but this is what I wrote back to him on the entirety of his quote:

"He was used mightily of God, but he was a practicing homosexual and this showed God used A GAY MAN, not a FORMER gay man, not a NON-PRACTICING gay man. Lonnie was never to find peace with his homosexuality because of those around him like Chuck Smith (Smith is a whole other story) who loved and used his anointing, just not the homosexuality that came with it. I noticed in defending Lonnie you couldn't leave out the shot how he felt he was "paying the price" for what you probably believe was his homosexuality when instead it was the price for promiscuity. Why was he promiscuous? Because Lonnie believed a same-sex relationship couldn't be blessed by God. He reaped the fruit of what he was TAUGHT. 

There is a move of the Holy Spirit with calling God's gay and lesbian children to the table as they are and a moving in "straight" churches with God telling them "These are mine also." It's too late for Lonnie, but he's in Glory seeing what is happening with those of us like him and praising God."

David actually wrote me back when I was eating cereal with this:

"Thanks for your perspective. There are many in the Body of Christ today who believe that God is going to move mightily in the homosexual communities. I think Meri Crouley has said this a time or two. The fact is there are actually safe and friendly environments where homosexuals do come together as a Church. Anyone visiting them can not deny the presence of the Holy Spirit that they experience while there. Evidence that God loves all of us and is not willing that anyone should perish. The Lord is not slow to fulfill His promise as some understand slowness, but is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. 2 Peter 2:3 All of us are born into sin and are sinners in the eyes of God. As it is written: "There is no one righteous, not even one; Romans 3:10 We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to our own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all. Isaiah 53:6 Thank God for His mercy and grace! God bless you."

 - David Sloane.


Now David sounds dandy, but I looked up "Meri Crouley" and yet again we find another "Prophetess," with a talk show no less, and who's her favorite guest? Walid Shoebat. Let me familiarize you with some quotes from Mr. Shoebat:

"The homosexual movement is the most hateful and most vile group in all of the Western world. The sodomites are supremacists; they believe that they have the superior lifestyle, a disposition and constitution more superior than the “others,” who they consider as inferior breeders. This is the ideology of sodomism."

"Sodomism is the ideology of homosexual superiority, in which the homosexuals desire to usher in — through propaganda, violence and state coercion — a utopia in which homosexuality is seen as a supreme ideal, and those who believe in the conjugal union as is affirmed and established by the Christian Faith, are viewed and treated as enemies."

"We are deliberately neglecting this ill called the sodomite and his pernicious goals, all in the name of tolerance and a feigned Christian love. Love is not about accepting everyone they are, it is often enough about purging the wicked to preserve the innocent. To outlaw the sodomite, would be to protect children whom the sodomite is pursuing to recruit for their demoniacal scheme."

OUCH!

I like to believe David didn't know the opinions of Walid on homosexuality, otherwise, I doubt he would have brought up the show that gives him a platform for these views. Only David knows. Crouly is a hoot, but to have such a poisonous person, a man avoided even by other anti-gay Christians like James White, is without excuse.



I'm sure this post is only interesting to those with a Pentecostal bent, but I try to keep my brethren in the news because nothing is ever going on with Pentecostals other than the rent and blaming demons for cakes coming out of the oven lopsided. 

Visions or too much spicy Thai before bed?

The exchange with the French 'ex-gay' started me thinking about this issue of visions, prophetic dreams, and God speaking directly to people like he believed what happened to him. Now as a Pentecostal, these are all very real to me coming from this denominational background (The Bible backs me on this (Acts 2:17).
But all these spiritual manifestations and utterances have to jive with the Word of God or they are
n o t h i n g.

There is also a real danger when interacting with the spiritual realm because there is the possibility you may not be dealing with God or his messengers, but the other guy and his ilk. Even Paul said if an angelic being appears to you while you're taking a shower (the first red flag is someone coming to you while you're in the shower) and tells you something that seems to be contrary to the Word, the visitor is from the other guy who NEVER has your best interest in mind. The fact Paul gives this warning says it can happen, just ask Joseph Smith.

My Pentecostal side of the denomination isle is a perfect example of those who like to believe they have their toes dipped into the spiritual pool over other types of Christians, but somehow they embrace more spiritual heresies at the same time (Latter Rain, Manifest Sons of God, Oneness, Shepherdship Movement, and different incarnations of the prosperity doctrine are all heresies that stemmed from the Pentecostal church, not to mention the scary "revival" meetings). My Pentecostal brethren, always stretching to hear the voices of Angels while ignoring the cries of men.

False dreams and prophesies can do real damage. The assistant Pastor of my church felt like he had a prophetic calling to start his own church. He did and it failed, miserably. It left him questioning everything. God was not behind this, but hearing it from him? It was from God and it's an example of how you can really convince yourself God is talking to you. This can go from the greater to the lesser of us. 

Then you have some like a YouTube "Prophetess" who had a vision from God of California having a major Earthquake because of all the homosexuals being busy with homosexuality in the state. Well, guess what? Seismologists who don't get visions from God have been predicting a major Earthquake for years because we haven't had smaller Earthquakes and now it's built into one big one coming to me soon. Of course when it happens this "seer" will see it as her prophesy coming true and people in the Bible Belt who believe gays cause natural disasters will be in awe of her while running away from the tornadoes they'll say God didn't send them. From the looks of it, all you have to do is have a social media account and you are ripe for all kinds of visions from the Lord. The problem is the visions don't match up or directly contradict visions others have had and that makes many people liars, delusional, or maybe both. The Bible says if a prophet of God is wrong even once, they aren't of God and they are to be killed. There is no wiggle room with this and it shows how lightly so many believers take this subject when God doesn't.

"And the LORD said to me: “The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I did not send them, nor did I command them or speak to them. They are prophesying to you a lying vision, worthless divination, and the deceit of their own minds."

Jeremiah 14:14.


At this point in time when the Body of Christ is infested with heresies and are becoming crueler to their LGBTQ neighbor instead of nicer, maybe we should step away from the dreams and prophesies till we're grounded in the Word of God FIRST. I'm talking about really being solid in it to where we can tell these multitudes of self-professed prophets who dream dreams to shut up and sit down with what isn't from God because this has turned into a jumbled mess of spiritual entertainment over a sober faith anchored soundly in the Word of God.


"The life of a man consists not in seeing visions and in dreaming dreams, but in active charity and in willing service."

- Henry Wadsworth Longfellow.

Her visions gave her an Excedrin migraine.

Pastor Randy Morgan

A powerful sermon from a Pentecostal Pastor.






I'm taking a break from putting up new postings. I'll still check my blog on a daily bases for any new comments.

"By wisdom a house is built, and by understanding it is established; by knowledge the rooms are filled with all precious and pleasant riches.
Finally, brothers, rejoice. Aim for restoration, comfort one another, agree with one another, live in peace; and the God of love and peace will be with you."

Amen.

Proverbs 24:3-4, Cor. 13:11.

Parham's 1907 Incident

Pentecostals like to forget how our earliest history had a connection to homosexuality.
link

"But before he died, his ministry converted over 2 million conversions. His crowds often exceeded 7,000, and it was Parham who popularized the message of Pentecost and prepared the way for all that happened at Azusa. The father was now to give way to the catalyst of Pentecost."

- The Azusa Street Revival: When the Fire Fell," by Roberts Liardon.

Holy Rollers

I'm a Pentecostal.* I'm not saying it like "I'm an alcoholic." It's not like I need to profess it in a Church rental hall with someone handing out poker chips with how many days I last spoke in tongues. The irony is getting pickled and speaking in tongues were linked on the first day of Pentecost when the inhabitants of the upper room went out on the streets and the passer byes thought they were on a Manischewitz bender. We are the country bumpkin brother of the Church 'Proper.' I wasn't always proud to claim the title Pentecostal, When I was a boy I was taken to an independent Pentecostal Church in east Los Angeles by my Mexican aunts. The service by the end of the night always turned out the same. a racket of overlapping tongue speaking, shaking and jerking with closed eyes, and the occasional rolling on the floor like dropped water bottles. All this to blaring music from an electric guitar, tambourines and Spanish shouting over the loud speakers from the Pastor. What WAS something to edify the Church with someone speaking in an unknown language followed by a clear interpretation from another as mandated by the Apostle Paul, turned into a floor show, a spectacle of blaring and blasting that shook the cottage cheese/glitter specked roof. The events on those warm night made this boy terrified, I couldn't wait to get out of there and away from it. If this was what the Holy Spirit was about, I wanted nothing to do with Him, I didn't even want Him near me. When I was in my teens I cooled it with any kind of Church until I started to go to an Assembly of God Church. The speaking of tongues and interpretation was done right, but that would be eclipsed by church members who caused all kinds of problems for the poor Pastor because he wouldn't kick out this quite gay boy who just wanted to love Jesus. It took me years to understand the experiences in my youth had nothing to do with the gentle third person of the Trinity, it was flesh manifesting in those church services, I wish I could have known that then and not grieve the Holy Sirit.

One thing I needed before I completed my journey was validation from the Holy Spirit with outward manifestations to show me I wasn't wrong. Was it necessary? No, was it necessary to ME? Yes. I needed validation and I found that validation in two places. One was a gay-affirming church in West Virginia were I witnessed people being Slain in the Spirit and the mighty fruits it was showing with it being such a tiny church. The second was a gay-affirming church in Arizona whose gay Pastor came from the Assemblies of God body who baptized others in the Spirit with the laying on of hands with the evidence of speaking in tongues (I instantly recognized the heavenly language from my years in the AoG church). My discernment in listening to their sermons followed with telling me in the Spirit it was from God and I was happily and joyfully sent off in my renewed walk with Christ not as a gay sinner, but as a child of God with no condemnation with wanting my own sex.

I pray in some small way my writings here do the same for you.


Frank.






*Mainstream Pentecostalism doesn't condone the handling of snakes or drinking of poison in a church service (it's a twisting of Mark 16:17-18 and flies in the face of; "Tempting the Lord your God") practiced almost exclusively in the hills of Tennessee. 

Gays in the Pentecostal Church

An Essay

GPS

I see gay Episcopalian blogs, queer Lutheran blogs (mi casa es su casa Rev. Dave), queer looking Lutheran blogs, even a trans Quaker (luv ya Claire) blogging away. There's no shortage of gay or gay affirming blogs that use terms like "vestments" and "liturgy." As far as I know I'm the only gay Pentecostal blogger out there, believe me, I looked. We Pentecostals like to keep everything to a minimum unlike my friends above, we like clean lines. You won't find a lot of trappings at a Pentecostal Sunday service, you're lucky if you even find a cross anywhere. It's like we gave ourselves just a spoon at the buffet table of denominations and we need big empty spaces for all the rolling around we do. We do have communion, but it happens so fast you're left wondering, "Did we just have communion? I looked away for a minute." We do have baptism in water, but it's not a pressing matter like with the Baptists who wait for you to step on the trap door to a baptismal dunking pool. The big difference is we don't make the 3rd person of the trinity a 3rd wheel, we see Him as much as a person as the Savior He spotlights. I don't say all this to point out differences, if you have accepted Christ as your Savior that's all you need to be in the family of God, I say it because I know how important it is to have someone who knows where you're coming from with knowing the set-up, gets the behaviors of the church they come from. So if you see a Pentecostal wandering around your gay Methodist site looking lost, send him my way with his sack lunch, you'll be glad I took him off your hands.  

A Letter to the Assemblies of God Church

A response to General Superintendent George Wood and Pastor John Lindell.
Later Wood responded with a letter of his own starting it with saying Snider comes from the 'revisionists' viewpoint of the Bible with homosexuality while Wood makes the argument he's upholding the 'traditionalists' view. I went to Wood's blog and responded with this comment that's waiting to be moderated (All of the Biblical points Wood brings up are thoroughly covered by this blog):

In reading your response to Snider, you believes you espouse the traditionalist view of Scripture while Snider is an advocate of the revisionist view. My contention is that it’s you who is advocating a revisionism view of the Bible with homosexuality. The primary reason homosexuality was believed to have been the judgment of God with the cities on the plains called Sodom and Gomorrah was an 11th century invention, lesbianism was never read into Romans 1 until the 4th century and we see the word evolution of “malakoi” and “arsenokoitai” from having a non-homosexual meaning to a homosexual current one with the witness of past Bible translations (Malakoi was simply translated as “weaklings” until 1902 when it, strangely, transformed into “effeminados” (effeminate).

To read Jesus prohibiting homosexual unions because He brings up the first example of human pairing with Adam and Eve is putting words in the mouth of Christ He never spoke, reading prohibition into omission. To even bring up the selective laws you believe we are to follow in Leviticus is going contrary to Christ who says ALL the laws are summed up in; “Loving your neighbor as yourself” and goes contrary to Paul who states the law is dead to us who are under a New Covenant.

It pains me to see the AoG churches (of which I am a member) refusing to even have a simple dialogue with others of the faith who might have a differing stance than the one held by the AoG on homosexuality and I put that squarely on your shoulders Mr. Wood.

Wood ended up deleting my comment. Disappointing, but no surprise. What's scary is a man in his position showing a total disregard for stated facts (easily proven) because it goes against his dogma.